XP11 extensive testing with flyinside results

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XP11 extensive testing with flyinside results

Postby theskyisthelimit99 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:23 pm

My hardware is listed in my sig, but basically oculus rift + 1080 FTW hybrid + 4.7 6700k..

I'm using KSEA on approach with these specific coordinates as a test: 47.48 N and 122.31 W (vanilla install of b3 of xp11 with only north america loaded in this test)

I'm using the clear weather with about 80miles visibility as the setting. (i found with scattered clouds i couldnt get the same cloud type each time to get good results for comparing)
Hit pause just after loading so its aiming at the runway/airport downward..

**Note.. in all cases, at least for me... if i tried to set NI AA it made NO difference when HDR was on.. however, leaving the settings did make a difference in FPS, just no difference in jaggies/shimmering..
Where NI AA did make a difference was with HDR off.. and AA off in XP11.. but, i couldnt get addons like reshade to work to try to brighten up the horrid darkness of no HDR.. if there is a workaround to this, this may help on frame rate in the long run.. (reshade breaks flyinside)

My baseline test had:
Visual: HDR
Textures: High
NO shadows
World Objects: high
Reflections : Min


I found these color adjustments in FI to work better:
4% Darkness
-6% on Bright
and 126% on saturation

Using the above settings in the c172 default with beta 3 (and with all settings in NI at default, even thread optimization.. i found a 5 fps boost by leaving this on AUTO not off for some reason)..

AT FI of 2880 res:
I tried 4SAA around 35 fps.. if i switch to 2SSA + FXAA its around 41fps..

FI 2880 again, another test, this time with shadows turned on and 4SAA.. 30 fps ..

Now FI set to 3840 res and shadows OFF **much better visibility/clarity than at 2880):
I tried 4SAA i get 26 avg paused (but more like 22-26 with looking around)..
Turn to 2SSA+FXAA i get 36ish for the frame rate (no shadows) but it looks a tad worse on clarity and shimmering.
Leave at 2SSA + FXAA and turn on shadows, 36 becomes 26 fps

Overall, just turning on shadows will cost about 3-4 fps.

Setting reflections to medium, up a notch, made no real difference in fps

Setting buildings to medium instead of high resulted in LESS shimmer, maybe due to being less advanced.. but NO change in FPS, however, going from high to the max was a loss in fps (2-3)


So what this boils down to for me as of now, unless there are ways of tweaking graphics through datarefs, like maybe customizing shadows somehow or turning off traffic?.. that basically i found 3840 supersampling to be the best looking especially at 4SAA, but shadows is killer.. and even at 26 fps with 4SAA and 3840 and no shadows, this is a tad on the low side.. areas like NYCX will tank, so i may find myself for now just setting things to 2SAA + fxaa to get 36 fps (so more like 30 if i turn on shadows with that combo)..

It may seem a slight difference going from 4saa to 2saa, but i can see where things are clearer and in goggles that lack the resolution, clarity is everything, at least to me.

Other notes: FXAA and the AA in FI seem to have little or NO effect on the sim clarity and shimmering, but more so with the menu for flyinside in terms of clarity.. i tried disabling AA in the sim and leaving FI at 8x, it was pretty awful shimmering, and again, NI setting SGSS made no difference on shimmering with AA off in the sim with HDR, only when it was off.

Overall, i still think P3D looks a bit sharper with flyinside.. hoping as the beta improves flyinside will gain some tweaks to reduce the shimmering effect and gain some performance / fps.

EDIT: i should mention in my 4saa + 3840 FI res tests.. where i would see about 27 fps to start.. if you unpause the ATW values drift down from 92.. sometimes even as low as 65 as you get closer to the runway/buildings.. but overall its "ok" though not great performance wise.. i may toy around with trying to lock frames to see if it helps keep the ATW values up as it did with p3d.

update: ok, so the 27 fps had with 4ssa + 3840 (more like 27/90-48 depending).. is unusable due to the low ATW at times.. even KPIT, showing 29 fps sim rate at first.. but the atw drops to 45-50.. and this isnt a big region like KSEA.. so its 2SSA for now until maybe 5-9 fps could be squeezed out from somewhere else i guess..
Z170-a | SL Delid 6700k 4.7 1.402-0.008LLC6(vcore=1.44) | F4-3200C15D-16GVK @1.40 at 3466 | TT 3.0 Riing | Thermaltake v51 | Evga 1080FTW Hybrid Water(43c p3d) | Rift | Leap | CH Yoke/Pedals | P3D v3.4.14 and Aerofly FS2 (evo SSD)/XP10(std sata)
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Re: XP11 extensive testing with flyinside results

Postby Jzig » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:49 pm

I just got back from some dataref testing and wanted to leave you this info in case you wanted to play around with them:
Dataref Editor http://www.xsquawkbox.net/xpsdk/mediawiki/File:DataRefEditor_12-11.zip

Put that in your resource\plugins folder and you'll get a menu for it inside the plugins drop down. Most of the useful controls are under the art controls window. It's a little weird, if you find a value you want to change, click or double click on the actual value # to get the cursor up. Changes you make in here are not permanent and will be lost when you restart x-plane.

Anyway, most important finding for me was turning off cockpit shadows, which gave me a 3-5 FPS gain.
Image

I've also been using Process Explorer from the sysinternals suite to monitor CPU/GPU consumption with more detail. Right now my hunch is that I'm GPU limited by object geometry/density... not HDR, textures, AA, or anything like that. I'm a little confused by that because my understanding was always that object density and geometry is CPU side, but I'm not seeing my CPU struggling and I was monitoring all cores individually. Could be something to do with the way it's measured for the graphing? Anyway, the # objects is big factor in FPS and more so in stutter when looking in new directions. It isn't nearly as noticeable in 2D but in VR, if you turn your head and it there is a delay to load objects, you get a blackspace.
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Re: XP11 extensive testing with flyinside results

Postby Jzig » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:07 pm

One other thing I meant to say that could involve datarefs. I think that the default distance settings that XP11uses to stop drawing or lower the LOD of trees models in forests is probably too far for a VR headset. At a certain distance, even at the 3840 res, we can't really see the trees in a way that is worth rendering them. If it were a monitor running 3840xwhatever that would be different, but I think we may be rendering things like trees in VR at too great of a distance. I saw datref controls that look like they would handle this but I think you need to reload your scenery for every change.
i7 4790K | 16GB DDR3 2400mhz | Asus gtx1070 8GB | Rift CV1 w/ Touch | Win10 x64 on SSD | XP10/11 on SSD
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Re: XP11 extensive testing with flyinside results

Postby theskyisthelimit99 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:31 am

Jzig wrote:One other thing I meant to say that could involve datarefs. I think that the default distance settings that XP11uses to stop drawing or lower the LOD of trees models in forests is probably too far for a VR headset. At a certain distance, even at the 3840 res, we can't really see the trees in a way that is worth rendering them. If it were a monitor running 3840xwhatever that would be different, but I think we may be rendering things like trees in VR at too great of a distance. I saw datref controls that look like they would handle this but I think you need to reload your scenery for every change.



Thanks for these suggestions.. i have the dataref addon installed.. i also have flywithlua for launching these "fixes" more permanently in a .lua file in the lua scripts folder.. i have one in there to fix the jaggies on shadows for now too.

I had spotted this thread about LOD and a way to dynamically change it using a script.. but the person that mentioned it said the file was attached but it wasnt.. i asked if they still had the script in the meantime.. yeah it was for xp10, but i was hoping it could be applied: http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/fo ... g-dataref/

3-5 on cockpit shadows can come in handy... though ultimately i was hoping to find a way to keep all shadows off, with the exception of cloud shadows (that show up on the ground).

I tested the "number of world objects slider".. my tests above were all set to high.. lowering to medium did not help frame rate in my tests, but helped reduce shimmer due to less buildings.. when i went to max, frame rate took a hit.

Right now my biggest issue seems to be the windows anniversary update 1607..

I had a test image that did not have it installed.. so i installed it, now the frame rate on my ksea pause test has dropped to 22 fps / 45-85 atw as an example.. down quite a bit, relatively..
I've turned off xbox game dvr per other threads, but that didnt help.. something else is causing it to drop and its not a cpu cycle hit either.. this is a test image too, so i have barely anything installed.. i'm at a loss and stuck right now because i really want to determine the cause before moving forward.

Also. If I try a 2d non vr session. Now my view is upside down
Z170-a | SL Delid 6700k 4.7 1.402-0.008LLC6(vcore=1.44) | F4-3200C15D-16GVK @1.40 at 3466 | TT 3.0 Riing | Thermaltake v51 | Evga 1080FTW Hybrid Water(43c p3d) | Rift | Leap | CH Yoke/Pedals | P3D v3.4.14 and Aerofly FS2 (evo SSD)/XP10(std sata)
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Re: XP11 extensive testing with flyinside results

Postby theskyisthelimit99 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:42 am

I'm also now suddenly noticing an issue where it seems if i glance left and right i get a black square encroaching on the edges of the fov of the goggles.. seems to happen no matter which version of the display drivers i'm using. Its only present at the max super sample of 3840, not at the 2880
Z170-a | SL Delid 6700k 4.7 1.402-0.008LLC6(vcore=1.44) | F4-3200C15D-16GVK @1.40 at 3466 | TT 3.0 Riing | Thermaltake v51 | Evga 1080FTW Hybrid Water(43c p3d) | Rift | Leap | CH Yoke/Pedals | P3D v3.4.14 and Aerofly FS2 (evo SSD)/XP10(std sata)
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Re: XP11 extensive testing with flyinside results

Postby vitabutch » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:01 am

theskyisthelimit99 wrote:I'm also now suddenly noticing an issue where it seems if i glance left and right i get a black square encroaching on the edges of the fov of the goggles.

IMHO you see the edge of the rendered screen. When you turn your head ATW is working (not even ASW). Xplane renders next frame slower than you can turn your head so you see the "edge of the void" :) Therefore FOV settings is set to 103%. It gives enough margin in FOV rendering for ATW to keep this black space non-visible.
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Re: XP11 extensive testing with flyinside results

Postby theskyisthelimit99 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:00 am

theskyisthelimit99 wrote:
I had spotted this thread about LOD and a way to dynamically change it using a script.. but the person that mentioned it said the file was attached but it wasnt.. i asked if they still had the script in the meantime.. yeah it was for xp10, but i was hoping it could be applied: http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/fo ... g-dataref/

3-5 on cockpit shadows can come in handy... though ultimately i was hoping to find a way to keep all shadows off, with the exception of cloud shadows (that show up on the ground).

I found another reference to this LOD script here http://www.avsim.com/topic/439926-dynam ... ua-script/

Tried it, but didnt seem to make a difference
Z170-a | SL Delid 6700k 4.7 1.402-0.008LLC6(vcore=1.44) | F4-3200C15D-16GVK @1.40 at 3466 | TT 3.0 Riing | Thermaltake v51 | Evga 1080FTW Hybrid Water(43c p3d) | Rift | Leap | CH Yoke/Pedals | P3D v3.4.14 and Aerofly FS2 (evo SSD)/XP10(std sata)
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Re: XP11 extensive testing with flyinside results

Postby anubhav100 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:08 pm

theskyisthelimit99 - you and I have similar setups and are getting to the same result. At a 3840 res I have to use a 2SSA + FXAA to get things playable fps wise (30+ fps). However the shimmering and jagged edges are too pronounced for me. 4SAA is definitely nicer but I take a bigger hit to the frames and at times lose the FI 90fps (or the 45 ATW)

Sadly I had to come to the conclusion that FI XP is not playable for me - yet. It's a little too unstable and inconsistent in performance for now. However, its still in beta so I'll be waiting for future updates that I hope will address all of these. Kudos to Dan and team for the continued development on this. My sense is many of these performance issues are XP-related and not FI..

For the time being, I am contemplating moving back to P3D (and FI P3D which is much more stable) while keeping keeping an eye out for XP updates (both from LR and from FI)

Thanks for doing all this above testing.
---
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Re: XP11 extensive testing with flyinside results

Postby anubhav100 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:13 pm

For the record, at a 3840 res, 4x SSAA, I end up at 27/75 fps. Unable to reach 90 fps in FI. At a 2x SSAA + FXAA, I get to 35/90, but the shimmering is too bad for me. Not ideal..

How are the rest of the FI XP folks coming along? At what settings are you able to fly?
---
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Re: XP11 extensive testing with flyinside results

Postby theskyisthelimit99 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:18 pm

not sure if i mentioned this before, but.. if you put these in a .lua script you gain about 10 fps in the rift...

set("sim/private/controls/caps/use_csm", 0.000000)
set("sim/private/controls/perf/disable_shadow_prep", 1.000000)


Basically kills shadows i believe.


My fps at least on the ATW took a hit with Beta 5 (averaging 70-92 whereas before it was a solid 90-92).. this seemed to bring it up a bit, along with the sim rate.
Z170-a | SL Delid 6700k 4.7 1.402-0.008LLC6(vcore=1.44) | F4-3200C15D-16GVK @1.40 at 3466 | TT 3.0 Riing | Thermaltake v51 | Evga 1080FTW Hybrid Water(43c p3d) | Rift | Leap | CH Yoke/Pedals | P3D v3.4.14 and Aerofly FS2 (evo SSD)/XP10(std sata)
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